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  • Duran Duran Bites the Hands That Feed

    51
    August 17th, 2010Kitty Amsbry


    Never trust the artist, trust the tale. – D.H. Lawrence

    Over the past year or so, a pall has been cast over the Duran Duran fan community. Two valuable resources for sharing bootlegs, rare recordings and remixes were abruptly shut down. The first to go was Klaus’ site at www.duranduran.no, and this past weekend, all posts in the Music Room at MarkUK’s www.duranduranproboards.com were removed. Both were vast compendiums of knowledge, history, and musical innovation, noble efforts of the people who tirelessly maintained the sites as well as the countless fans who generously shared their collections with others who appreciated them.

    These sites did not cater to piracy or counterfeiting of any kind. I know that MarkUK’s board is moderated very well and did not allow posting of any upload links for material that has been commercially released. It’s been a while since Klaus’ site was removed (and he’s not talking due to a rather fearsome gag order placed on him by the band) but I don’t recall that any official releases were posted there either. Regardless, all of the Duran Duran’s material is covered by copyright, whether officially released or not.  My point here is not to argue the valid legal grounds.

    What I am going to argue is that by continuing to shut down communities such as these, Duran Duran are deluding themselves and needlessly punishing their fans in the process. The sharing of live and rare recordings between fans is far more beneficial to an artist than it could ever be of harm. Without a doubt, bootlegs fuel an interest and excitement about the music which results in more sales of the legitimate product, and cries of lost revenue caused by the sharing of bootlegs are irrelevant when the label has no intention or interest in releasing the material.

    I’m willing to bet the farm that the same people who download Duran Duran bootlegs have also purchased every one of their officially released recordings. These sites were not for people looking to save a few bucks by downloading something illegally. They were for the dwindling number of hardcore fans of Duran Duran, the deeply devoted few who continue to earnestly line the pockets of the record label executives and to a lesser extent, the band themselves.

    My hard drive is chock-full of Duran Duran bootlegs, each one a treasure and beloved for it’s own unique qualities. My adoration of the band grows deeper with every listen. The recordings are full of nuance and memories, whether collective or my own. Sharing them with others opens up new avenues of conversation, discussing thoughts and ideas about the music that might otherwise never come to light. The music may belong to the band, but the experience belongs to the fans… and Duran Duran are stupidly trying to take that away from us.

    This is merely another example of Duran Duran sticking their heads in the sand, ignoring the sweeping changes that the Internet has brought to the music industry and blindly refusing to utilize the limitless promotional power of genuine interaction and fan-generated content. Not satisfied to simply shut down bastions of fan interaction, Duran Duran is unwilling to competently manage their own official fan site, which is rife with trolls and devoid of even mildly interesting official content. One could also mention how the band sheepishly stands mute when EMI screws up their remasters and posts a press release which clearly insults the intelligence of their fan base.

    Meanwhile, successful artists like Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails are embracing the new music business attitude, communicating directly with fans, treating them with respect and providing them with a reason to consume their music and come to their shows. Compare this with Duran Duran’s ego-boosting power trips and fear-mongering and one has to wonder how long this band can survive the swiftly changing tides.

    Brace yourselves, because this is going to hurt: Duran Duran’s last album, Red Carpet Massacre, has sold less than 100,000 copies in the US and UK combined, even as they still sit on shelves at $3.99. These alarming figures show that pretty much the only people who bought the album were hard-core fans, the very same people that Duran Duran is punishing by shutting down their dwindling sites of devotion. Biting the hand that feeds you is not a smart move prior to the release of another album with yet another expensive producer and no record label to offer promotion.

    This is not a case of Duran Duran’s management being asleep at the wheel… Magus Entertainment is driving the car off of the cliff. If they continue to treat fans like impudent teenagers, it’s going to be tough to salvage what is left of this relationship. At what point will we unite to find our voice and tell the emperor that he wears no clothes?  There’s too much at stake to not consider some tough love, and time is running out.

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51 responses to “Duran Duran Bites the Hands That Feed” RSS icon

  • So True!

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  • I completely agree with you. Only the true fans appreciate the rare, live and rare mixes. Which we are the first to pre-purchase the new album before its release. To the average music consumer, they no interest in the unreleased recordings. They are punishing the true Duran Duran fans around the world that share a common bond in the appreciation of the bands creative talents.

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  • How should we unite to tell the emperor he has no clothes? Set up a petition and tell them to knock it off?

    I wonder if the band/management have gotten after Andy for sharing a few bootlegs via Facebook and his website. I’m sure he would say so if they had.

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  • I agree with you, I’ve got loads of bootlegs and I think its a better way of hearing the band than something official. I would LOVE to hear the band’s opinion on this, is it a directive from themselves or is this a witch hunt by management? I’ll be very peeved if they have gone after Andy for sharing something he was a part of. I love the band so much but really they need to wake up and smell the 2010 coffee.They frustrate me intensly!

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  • Klaus was busted for, amongst other things, intellectual and copyright theft. He had no right to ownership over any download that he hosted on his site, yet, he branded every one with “copyright duranduran.no”. He also tried to pass himself off as an official site to the Norwegian media. That and posting audience recorded files from the Songbook show, something that was strictly forbidden on the actual ticket to the event, is what got his site closed down.

    As for Mark’s board, it is highly unlikely that it is the band’s doing. Proboards themselves have been sending other boards the exact same pm that Mark received, over the last month and a half. Other non-Duran boards, hosting files of a decidedly non-Duran nature. Surely, it is just a case of Proboards covering their own arse? Or does Duran have such power that they can get Oasis tracks removed as well?

    Reading his posts, Mark did not have to remove all of the files – he did so because he would rather avoid any further hassle for himself or any of his forum users. Rather than remove only the flagged files and risk further penalties if more were found to be breaking copyright laws, he deleted the whole forum so that there was no risk of further action to anyone. He is a good moderator. I have seen cases where the mod thought it would be a good idea to stick up two fingers to the board host and keep the illicit files on the board in question , only for the board to disappear overnight.

    I will only believe this is the band’s (or rather management’s) doing if certain other band related sites lose their files. Until then, I firmly believe that this is just a part of Proboard’s ongoing purge of copyrighted material. But with that, I must also state that I will always find it rather disconcerting that so many people who profess to be a fan of a band seem to have a problem with the possibility that that band might actually be entitled to some form of payment for their music.

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    • People have the right to get paid for their product. Hence why the music business has called their artists, “Content Providers”. While this makes the musician a mere muppet to the industry, the fans end up being shafted for what they desire … access to great music. Maybe if the record companies and publishers and management companies stopped being greedy and started putting everything that the fans want at a reasonable price out on the accessible market instead of cut to pieces that are re-edited piles of overly-produced music, the music lovers would be more attentive to the wallets of the musicians/publishers/overly greedy music execs … ad nauseum.

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    • Mark’s board is only a part of the issue and I think Kitty stated that very well.

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  • “Duran Duran is unwilling to competently manage their own official fan site, which is rife with trolls and devoid of even mildly interesting official content.”

    Laugh!
    Out!
    Loud!

    I couldn’t agree with you more! Your whole opinion is presented beautifully, but that one sentence is especially hilarious to me.

    xoxox

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  • “Anonymous” — this is merely another example of how Duran Duran’s refusal to engage in any sort of meaningful, productive way with fans and music bloggers — the very people who have the greatest power to promote their music. If you (or Mark for that matter) choose to believe that this is just a “proboards sweep”… go for it. There have been other takedown orders issued recently for non-proboards sites. Personally, I don’t see how other bands having their files left alone or not proves that this is not being driven by Duran Duran. And if you are insinuating that I am someone who does not feel that the band is entitled to payment for their music, you are dead wrong.

    To all the other commenters: Thanks for the kind words.

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    • Sighs heavily.

      I never insinuated YOU were unwilling to pay for the band’s material, but there is a rather large number of so called fans who are almost proud to proclaim that they have not bought a legitimate Duran Duran release since the inception of internet file sharing and torrent sites.

      And you will have to clue me in on the other targeted sites of late. If they were the ones hosting the Big Thing and Notorious remasters then that would be an EMI led assault, and rightly so in my probably unwanted opinion. If they were hosting the files that Klaus got sued for then, yes, that is the band’s management working on securing stolen property (in the case of the Astronaut demos) or appeasing the Sky legal team (in the case of the Songbook files). As I said, you will have to clue me in.

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  • I’m sorry, I have to disagree. Unless the band themselves have stated it is ok to share their creativity, their product – whether officially released or not, what right to we have to take away any revenue or potential revenue from any artist. After all, music is the product of the artist(s) known as musician(s). In fact, copywrite law dictates that they must demonstrate active protection of their copywrite otherwise they loose the copywrite.

    You state that the label has decided not to release – you make a big assumption that the label has ownership of the material. Many cases this is not the case, they may only own the master tapes provided to them by the artist. And these days, many labels are only licensed distributers and the artist themselves, retains ownership of the master tapes and recordings.

    What your argument does do well, is to demonstrate the attitude that has developed with the internet and file sharing that the audience has a right to free product at the expense of the artist. These artists have to make a living to continue doing their art … I see no problem rewarding beautiful artistry by paying the artist for the access to their product.

    Perhaps a better suggestion would be to have Duran Duran open up a section of their website for downloading for a purchase price the bootlegs dedicated fans might be interested in having. As your agrument states, many would be willing to pay for them.

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    • “In fact, copywrite law dictates that they must demonstrate active protection of their copywrite otherwise they loose the copywrite.”

      Actually, copyright law does not dictate that any longer, and has not for decades. It’s a common misconception. Copyright is rock solid as long as it’s registered, and you could let people do whatever they want with your stuff for 30 years and one day come in and go, “Mine!” and win a massive lawsuit. Now there are statutes of limitations on suing – for example, if you posted something 10 years ago, in most states I couldn’t do jack to you if it’s been gone for 10 years. But if you have infringed within the statute of limitations, I have a valid legal case.

      I’ve seen no indication anywhere that anyone has connected this sweep directly to the band. It seems to be the assumption that we all jump to that the band is attacking its poor, devoted fans every time something happens. I’ve seen the band ask for copies of bootlegs, both in print and in the middle of a concert, of shows they wish they had. So I don’t think that the band themselves would be doing that, and from what I’ve seen, this is a sweep going way beyond just DD.

      Also, I’m curious as to where the 100,000 copies came from. The last numbers I saw would indicate that worldwide sales were over that.

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  • I agree with you, I’ve got loads of bootlegs and mix’s(many found it in the DD Board) and I think its a better way of hearing the band than something official (Remember only ARENA 1984 Official “live” album). I love the band? Late Marlene
    Maybe this is the begining of the end.

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  • So here we are again.

    The music industry is changing, and has changed over the past few years beyond recognition.

    When a business model changes only those companies able to change survive, and they do so by adapting to that change.

    Its business 101, look at McDonalds, start selling salads, turn into mini coffee shop, not an innovation, but a small change, and it worked.

    The music industry is and was so slow to adapt to the change in the way that music is consumed.

    The first indication that Duran dropped the ball, was the hoo haa over the Encore series. Delaying the issues so that Nick could tamper with the recordings, swapping songs took time, by which point some of the shows had leaked, and a video version of the 1st Japan date was out. The CD’s are now reduced on Encore, this never really happens.

    Fans collect bootlegs for what ever reason, hell, John even said he was OK with it, and Andy posts them on his site.

    Magus are at a point where they feel that they need to control the music, how ever by doing this very thing, they are infact stifling it, and the money they will get from a future album release.

    Case in point is the whole youtube / music video issue. 2 of the large labels pulled their artists footage off You Tube, and saw the sales of their artists drop, some by as much as 45%. The reason, people use You Tube, and other file sharing sites to share recommendations of music around. Just as you used to tape the charts, and pass it onto a friend.

    With out that, artists cant grow, and acquire new fans.

    I’ve introduced so many people to Duran through bootlegs, that ‘holy shit, they can really play live’ moment has lead to me taking 2 or 3 people to a gig with me each time I see them.

    Bear in mind I saw them live on every-date of the UK tour for Astronaut. Thats alot of money into the coffers of the band.

    Without the forums, the band will find it hard to aquire new fans, and I hate to say it, but the first generation of fans might not be into them forever.

    Word of mouth is the best form of marketing, and the same fans beating the same drum, is the same size audience and buyer for CD’s and stuff.

    I’d like to comment on the mis-management of the fan site, but thats another issue.

    Thats quite a rant, and I’ll leave it there.

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  • Ouch!

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  • Kitty, it was awesome to read this blog. While I never went to Mark’s site, I regularly visited Klaus’ and to this day had NO IDEA what happened to him! What a treat it was to see/hear the material there.

    You are so right on all points made. Thx for keeping us informed!

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  • Moonagedaydream August 17th, 2010 at 13:11

    I do believe fans should pay for music — but the have to have the opportunity to do that. I think the band is missing the boat by not making this music available on THEIR site. I’d buy any unreleased music in a heartbeat if they made it available.

    Andy is doing a fine job of making some things available for fans. That’s the approach the band should take.

    As long as there is “forbidden fruit” out there, someone’s going to want to take it.

    That’s just human nature.

    They should put it in a legitimate site and charge 99 cents per song.

    Bam! Problem solved.

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  • Dan — As I stated in the article, I am not disputing the copyright laws that are in place. It is the artist’s choice to demand enforcement, and many bands such as The Black Crowes and the Dave Matthews Band have found greater success with choosing to allow, and in some cases encourage, bootlegs. I fully agree with you that the artist should be paid for their product. There is a big difference between bootlegging and piracy, and in no way advocate the latter. I enthusiastically support your suggestion that alternatives should be put in place, as this would provide a stellar example of how the band could fully utilize (and monetize) the power of fan-generated content. Bootlegs do not take money away from the band… they ultimately drive interest in the band which leads to more official sales.

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    • It’s not the artist’s right – it’s the copyright holder’s right. That’s not always the artist. Given the fans’ recent blasting of EMI, I’m surprised no one’s suggesting that perhaps they’re behind it.

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  • Moonagedaydream — Exactly. Win-win. The opportunity is there… Duran Duran need to recognize it and reap the rewards.

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  • Sadly, I have to agree. I dunno what’s up but they have seem to have lost some of the spark, it’s more like a business for them now without that very feeling they did put in their performances before. Same songs, same moves… I still like it though but their behaviour doesn’t do it any better though and I think they make big mistakes by doing the things you say cuz I’m kinda losing interest in them and I never thought I’d say that. Seems like since Andy got the sack, it’s more like a different band; Uran Uran.

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  • Agree with you anyway…
    are we sure it comes from the band at least ?

    and if it comes from the band they don’t know we’ll create another one to share… then already done ?

    we bought their album sometimes twice or 3 times… so they should let us share our bootleg…

    If I was you I’ll send my blog to the members…

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  • Kitty, thank you for sharing your idea with us. I like your latest post very much. I agree with you. My interest in demo and bootlegs doesn’t make me stop sponsoring the band and buying official stuff. You made clear the difference between piracy and affection for the band’s music. If I see things under a logical point of view it’s quite obvious they lack in vision, enthusiasm and so do their management. That’s painful to say it aloud. It seems they’re not interested in tuning in with their fans and the whole potential audience out there. I really hope they will start listening to our voice again soon.

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  • Sorry, one more comment. Pear Jam started to sell their own bootlegs. As far as I know this was a successful initiative. everybody was happy: the band, the record company, and the fans.
    It takes little to make people happy. It only takes some effort to understand what to do and where to go.

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  • Kitty…what an excellent article, and I very much agree with you! If the guys were at the top of the charts at this moment, I can maybe understand why they’d be such divas…but COME ON! Unfortunately, this isn’t 1984. They’ve had quite a few albums tank after “Notorious”, and IMO, beggars can’t be choosers. As many of you know, I’m a devout fan, and I ALWAYS purchase whatever they release, sometimes 2 or 3 times over. Giving fans access to bootlegs is HARDLY going to affect their bottom line, considering that material was never supposed to be for sale anyway. I agree with many who’ve stated above that bootlegs enable fans to create bonds with each other, have something interesting to talk about, promote the band, and if nothing else, give us a bit of a variety of things to listen to while we’re (still!) waiting for the new album to be released. I don’t actually own any bootlegs, and I would probably be one of the suckers who would actually purchase downloads of them if they were made available…similar to the poor sods who’ve been duped time and time again into paying for an overpriced VIP ticket (but I digress…we ALL know that’s another article ENTIRELY!)! The bottom line is, the fan base is dwindling, the albums AREN’T selling, and the guys are getting older. I get a little tired of feeling more like I’m funding their retirement plan than enjoying their music. I think access to bootlegs is a small price to pay to keep the interest of the fans they DO have. The band need to wise up and stop cutting off their nose to spite their face…it’s starting to get ugly.

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  • Talk about pushing buttons! Certainly this is a subject that has touched many communities with many bands, and certainly DD is one of them. Ton’s of unreleased, outtakes, live… what hardcore fan wouldn’t want those. I want them! I didn’t know some of those sites existed, I miss the Napster days though. Met a really nice Duranie there who shared with me her stuff.

    Some bands reject the idea of fans having bootlegs of live shows or outtakes because they feel it gives the wrong impression of the band. C’mon we love them so much, we are not going to dump our collection because of a show that didn’t go over well, because the mike went out while Simon was singing. (happened before)

    Many of the labels who do have the material indeed have no intention of releasing the stuff that people want. And here I am flashing my cash, and credit cards, along with anyone else. Doesn’t that at least give a hint?

    The labels have thier say, the bands have thier say, and so do the fans, it’s a matter of compromising. What I do hate is when someone leaks an album, that really can screw up things on all levels. But I’m not cheap, I’m going to buy the album, and wait for it to come out, not give in to some leak.

    My personal feelings as to Andy’s boots and release of the live MTV show, but mostly his “fix” to GOF is that he really crossed the line, in that it disrespects the band to a certain extent. I mean they did all those recordings as a band, so why is Andy the only one to do this? I don’t think we need to think hard on this one… there still is bad blood between the guys. Had it been a group effort including Andy then I could see how it’s right, but with no input from the band or permission, I find him in the wrong.

    As for RCM selling only 100K… OMG that’s insane, surely more people have bought that album. I bought two of the limited editions. Didn’t we all? I mean there has to be more than 100,000 Duran Duran fans.

    Maybe we’ll have to share our rarities ala New Moon On Monday video, by secretly giving out flyers to each other.

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  • But… if the band decided to sell their bootlegs like Pearl Jam that would mean they’d have to play their asses off EVERY NIGHT like Pearl Jam. ;)

    I love their music still, but I’m so disillusioned by their snotty, spoiled attitude. Every time I bother to check in on what they’re up to, John’s bitching about something he doesn’t like. Corporate gigs. The same fans in the front row all the time. The internet. Having to leave home. Doing meet and greets. Doing interviews.

    Really. Let me go get my violin because Super Pissy Boy is breaking my heart.

    Sorry for the snark and rant but their attitude has been rotten for a while and THAT’S what has kept this fan on the disinterested outskirts for a few years now.

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  • I hate to say it but not even the hardcore fans bought Red Carpet Massacre. Only 100,000 across the world? It was a failure.

    I can understand studio recordings, demos, “official” recordings not wanting to be shared, but for the life of me I could never understand why people don’t want live recordings, festivals, etc.

    They should do what the Cure and Depeche Mode do: Record every show or a select few, with festivals, appearances and sell it themselves on duranduran.com in digital format.

    It doesn’t take a genius. Nice post K.I.T (like the Night Rider reference).

    The “new” online music business has hurt more new artists than ever before however, cos they’re giving their “official” music away for free and labels will not look at you unless you sell 64,000 on your own *sigh*. The Internet is a curse on music. You wouldn’t want to go to work 40 hrs a week and not get paid.

    But I do feel feel we can find a medium; official v live, etc.

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  • The points you’ve articulated so well here should carry some extra heft; no one could accuse you as a fan of being impatient or unsympathetic toward the band.

    Love the site. Adore you!

    D

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  • Well said Kitty!

    The greatest article ever written! Can’t agree more with you :)

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  • Kitty: Realize that the band, their management and the people that care about the band (Katy) have NOTHING to do with these actions. It is corporate suits and attorneys who search the web and remove content. A lot of your comments are directed in the wrong place. Rest assured that the band and management understand the new model which is why they are happy to be off Sony.

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  • Thanks again for all of your very thoughtful comments.

    Steve L: I sincerely want to believe your comment that the band and the people that care about them have nothing to do with the takedowns. I wish with all of my heart nothing but the greatest success for Duran Duran and their fans.

    However, the legal documents I am currently looking at were written on behalf of Simon Le Bon, John Taylor, Roger Taylor, and Nick Rhodes. “Corporate suits” do not act without regard for their client’s wishes, and if they do… perhaps it is time to change suits.

    If the band has in fact modified their stance regarding bootlegs since their departure from Sony, I’m sure that the fans would be pleasantly reassured by an official statement from the band to clear up this matter.

    I would love nothing more than to write a happy ending to this story.

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  • You are so right..
    Congratulations from a humble romanian durannie.

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  • I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again; Duran Duran could learn a lot from the Metallica way of dealing with bootlegs(mainly live shows). Record the show from the sound desk, and put it up for sale on the website within 48 hours at a reasonable price. It’s a win/win situation for the band and the fans. The fans get a reminder of a kick ass show, and the band still makes money from it.

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  • Well Said!!!!

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  • I appreciate the info here and agree with this blog – I was the one who asked in Roundtable no.1 about multitrack masters and having more fan involvement (around 9:00 min in or so…) in previewing tracks etc. and LeBon quickly shut it all down in his response with a whoosh… it’s a very old school, analogue, geezer kind of way of thinking… they’ve never really been darlings with the music media and/or critics – so why p*ss off the fan base? it’s getting harder and harder to be enthusiastic and i’ve been a long time fan…

    this band polices everything including buying up every last copy of Steve Maslin’s unauthorised biography… Why don’t they just call themselves Duran, Duran & Duran Law firm since they seem to be more busy frittering away in legalese rather than churning out new good music…

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  • Mark had the unique opportunity to stand up for his users but he ignored it completely. The rules of the site were already clear. The uploaders should have been removed along with the material…but they users stayed and everything else went. A crying shame really. And the fans think Duran Duran are being yellow-bellied.

    As for copyright…Duran may not even be the actual copyright holder of the music Dan speaks of and for that matter, what he is referring to is piracy….and there was NO piracy up to the day of the incident….the site was policed well by it’s own members. Most every DD fan I know purchases officially released material. They EVEN purchased the crap remasters that EMI has already stated they won’t fix….hows that for irony Dan?

    As for Kitty’s approach…I feel she is dead on. DD are missing the boat HUGE and the fans, the music, and the bands credibility are ultimately paying the price.

    If they cannot stand up for what they’ve said they believe in….they should bow out with what grace they may have left.

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  • This WHOLE article is exactly what needed to be said. Kitty has taken the issue, weighed it fairly, and presented it better than anyone else who’s torn over the recent issues as of late.

    As for duranies that DON’T buy music…show me where they are, please? All of the duranies I’ve met have awesome “bootleg” collections and have shared them for FREE with anyone wanting them but when it comes to official material…they have everything practically in triplicate…even vinyl collections that would choke a horse…how much more money can fans put into the machine before it starts spitting jackpots instead of “cease & desists” or “junk” masterings of albums that are iconic pieces of music history?

    There IS a middle ground to be had here but Magnus, Duran Duran, and EMI refuse to be the shining example of what is possible when fans, band, and company store work together for a common goal. I feel sorry for them, really I do. This entire situation is going to get worse way before it gets better.

    In regards to Mark’s site…there has been an imbalance there for quite some time now. Things did not have to go down the way they did. It was Mark’s choice to remove all those sections but he was not asked to do so. The decision did not favor the members of such a great community, the only person it really served was him.

    In the end, it is his board. The fans don’t know who to trust right now and it didn’t help push any of this in a positive direction.

    Here is to hoping things change for the better. My hopes and well wishes for all the fans caught in the middle and to the band when it comes to making things right for everyone involved.

    Cheers!!!!

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  • I would like to add that NONE of the members of MarkUK’s site ever condoned piracy of any kind. NO duranie I’ve ever met has condoned it either.

    The ONLY people I cannot speak about are those who chose to post the offending material that caused the issue there in the first place. They chose poorly.

    Fans WANT to pay for stuff that they really want to see and hear. The ONLY fair piece of media released with all of the “Deluxe Editions” has been the DVD content. It has allowed fans to toss some of their bootlegs in favor of this and that IS a good thing for ALL involved.

    What I’d like to see is Duran Duran actually involved in these products instead of someone who has no clue about what it means to BE a duranie. To me, it CAN be one of the best things in the world to be.

    :)

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  • @ Anonymous:

    Have you even read Proboards “terms and conditions”?

    They not only take no responsibility for anything that happens but they will ban you for no reason at all…only their own personal discretion need apply. The admins and mods are allowed the same “carte blanche” approach when it comes to the boards/forums created. Essentially, bullying tactics are allowed to delete anything contrary (including users and/or their legit opinions) that isn’t that of Proboards or admins/moderators even if it is based on fact.

    I realize you don’t have to chose membership if you don’t like the rules….but why have band related boards or forums then. Members of Duran Duran have said they are okay with bootlegs, they obtain them themselves.

    MarkUK’s site is falling in to the same trap it was trying to get away from when it was created…the same dreary mess that resides @ Duran Duran’s official fan forum. And all, at the expense of die-hard fans who work so hard to share their experiences and bootlegs (which the band have said they are okay with) freely with like-minded fans across the globe to create an even greater support base for a band they love and cherish.

    I miss the board, pre-takedown notice, as there is a lot of uncertainty in the air their…walking on eggshells, keeping your mouth shut, fear of providing factual and legit issues in open dialogue, lest you be made an example of for it.

    Kind of sad wouldn’t you say?

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  • *Shakes head*

    Good grief…

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  • shawn
    work out your issues

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  • @ synchronicity,

    There is nothing wrong with me feeling the way I do, so there is no issue to work out. The admin and I have spoken already and it seems that we just agree to disagree. It’s done.

    Why not bring something useful to the table instead of getting personal with me? Not very original if you ask me.

    :)

    Reply

  • @Kitty: every word is true that you blogged! Unfortunately! It is frightening.

    I wonder whether our 4 guys are realising what they do and where they are steering towards? Sometimes I feel they are sitting in their ivory tower and ignore what’s going on around them.

    Especially the management is a nightmare! I am working in a different industry as marketing manager for direct sales and I keep on asking myself when they will wake up finally and start doing their job! I wouldn’t get paid another month if I would “work” like that!

    DD are creating awesome songs and the whole world is listening to retro sounds – but Magus manages to fail even with basic marketing instruments! That’s insane!

    Reply

  • @anonymous

    Mmmmm… During my time with dd.no, first getting things for Klaus & then co-running the site, nothing, to my knowledge, was ever “copyright duranduran.no”, however at different times & for two specific reasons, things did have the website address on -

    1. Early on, along with Klaus wanting videos to be in a single file format (not quite sure why, but at the time it was his call…), there were issues with other sites directly linking to his server. Now, d.t. the encoding that was used in a number of instances, this caused major bandwidth problems & so, in order to discourage this, things were tagged. Once this issue had passed (& because he changed his mind about the necessity for recoding) then this predominantly stopped.

    2. With some of the larger TV/video rips that i did for the site, we had confirmed reports (ie all of the editing was identical) that people had been recoding things to DVD & selling them on eBay & the like. Now, because everything on the site was free, we didn’t want anyone to be ripped off & so these files were still tagged.

    Now, whilst sailing as close to the wind as we thought we could get away with, there were a handful of times (i think 4 or 5 ever) where we did cock things up & received takedown notices/requests which were, with a singular set of exceptions always immediately acted upon.

    [the exceptions being when DDM used his remix of Nite Runner in a couple of videos despite not having had a competition winner (breaching the rules of it & hence Klaus' copyright) - whilst this was deliberately done (& had my full support) it was only carried out after he had tried to resolve things with the official site first via numerous emails]

    Otherwise, quickly looking at the rest of your comments –

    - He/we were never ‘busted’ – okay, we pulled the site as there were good reasons at the time not to fight things (personal stuff that’s no one else’s business), but there was no action taken against us.

    - Where is the evidence of us claiming to be an official site to anyone? – admittedly we’d regularly get people emailing who thought we were as we were doing a more proactive job of promoting the band than DDM, but we always corrected them.

    - You haven’t read the letter from the lawyers so have no idea what they were actually claiming/demanding/etc or the contact we had with other sites that received similar letters around the same time – whilst the lawyers wouldn’t reply to any emails, there’s a commonality with the other sites that strongly suggests a misconception about dd.no.

    - Along with the bootlegging of any gig being “forbidden”, obviously the purchase/download/etc of anything that infringes copyright is infringement in itself – so i assume that you have nothing but official releases in your collection? Oh & how do you know that anything was tagged if you didn’t use the site yourself & infringe copyright?

    Anyway, from my perspective it was all hugely disappointing – we’d put a huge amount of time, effort & money into creating something that was really special to a large number of fans &, as Kitty wrote, “Duran Duran are deluding themselves and needlessly punishing their fans in the process”…

    …we simply saw the site as a way to allow other fans access to the wealth of stuff that’s out there for free – the internet being a dynamic entity where things quickly vanish if they’re not archived.

    Well, despite, unsurprisingly, having had offers from a fair few sites to ‘work my voodoo’ (well, i can work around the protection on almost any site) for them, i’ve got to watch my back & so there’s vast amounts of stuff that’s now not out there for you all (& it’s not as though the official site’s taken any initiative to provide any kind of replacement).

    Yeah, so whether you thought we were the devil incarnate or really loved the site, firstly our intentions were good & secondly it was clear from the many hundreds of people who took a minute or two out of their lives to email at the time to express their support that we did provide something kind of special…

    …it was really only this support that left me with any significant interest in the band.

    So, along with agreeing with Kitty’s original statement that action such as this does nothing but hurt the band’s image/reduces their profile to the detriment of the fans, there’s my spiel about things that gives x amount of insider info (similarly i can’t reveal what was in the letter though) & gives my tuppence on the issue.

    Reply

  • PocketDemon,

    Well put. This situation put a divide between the band and the fans and I’m not sure it will ever fully heal. It also built a riff between fans themselves. A true shame for sure. In fact, I don’t think any DD fan site will be the same from this point forward.

    Any self-respecting duranie has hopefully shaken their head and put their wallet back in their pocket until some of these issues are addressed in a proactive manner and given the proper closure because everyone stands to lose if they do not.

    I admit that being public about my own personal opinion on this hasn’t always been a positive experience but taking “the easy way” allows my beliefs to be compromised…and that is not something I’m willing to give up just to fit someones definition/description of a “true fan”.

    I miss the history you and Klaus were able to offer the fans. I miss having a place where all the fans are treated equally and free of alternate ID’s hiding in the shadows at every turn. I miss the band that excited us all and kept all of us sincerely eager and sweaty about what was coming next.

    I miss being a happy duranie…………..

    Cheers!!!!

    Reply

  • I need to mention that there are a few fan sites that still encourage and embody the fan spirit while there are some that will have a harder time keeping that spirit due to this entire debacle and all it’s implications.

    Here’s to hoping things change for the better….for EVERYONE.

    :)

    Reply

  • I have been a supporter since march 81. In many ways my life has revolved around Durand songs and albums. I buy every product twice thus helping the band and increasing my collection. I see no issue whatsoever with downloading anything I can get my hands on. I have paid my dues to the band. I see them on every uk tour, try to plug them to my friends at every opportunity and simply live them. I’m sure if I knew them personally they would probably piss me off trendously with their pettiness. I met slb , wife and children in ’97 and felt very let down. Then I paid £1000 to meet n greet them in 2004 then had the camera stolen before I even had a chance to look at them. I emailed the sire n they sent me a pic they took so that was good. Listen cos I will say this only once, nobody downloads a bootleg if they don’t like a band. If they like a band then of course they will have bought the official releases . Please dd, start selling concerts on your site!!

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  • well what can i say first of all i am a fan since 1981 .my first single was a pressent from my uncle it was careles memories .the first time i saw them was in 1982 in holland in the studio.first concert was in 1982 in Utrecht in holland and in belgium.i even got my own recording of the ahoy show from holland in november 1988 witch i know that i am the only one.collected bootlegs on tape ep cd and even on blue ray.as far for the downloads i havent found enything that i already have
    i have collected about everything of the boys even a signed promo of the album With compliments emi by all 5 signed in 1981!! and one on the maverick capitol.seen them in all line ups live on all the tours .spend about 20.000 euro on the boys .i hope for all you fans that you got a collection that i have collected since 1982.i have meet theme all,so iff you want to download go and do so but your not gonne get it from me.wooshhhhh

    Reply


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